Museums with Luftwaffe aircraft - 3

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Mikael Olrog
Ju 88 W.Nrs and versions in Norway
Sun Sep 1 21:36:47 2024
213.89.103.197

4 or 5 Ju 88 crashed from Stab/KG 26 on 9th of February 1945 in a mountain at Hjarttindgryta, close to Bardufoss in Norway. They were listed in loss reports as

Ju 88A-4 W.Nr. 140291, 1H+DF reported lost on 7.2 1945
Ju 88A-4 W.Nr. 821266, 1H+CF reported lost on 7.2 1945
Ju 88A-4 W.Nr. 301532, 1H+JF reported lost on 9.2 1945
Ju 88A-4 W.Nr. 142497, 1H+AF reported lost on 9.2 1945
Ju 88A-4 W.Nr. 886682, 1H+HF reported lost on 7.2 1945

But in another source I've seen the aircraft quoted as
Ju 88A-4 W.Nr. 301532, 1H+JF
Ju 88A-4 W.Nr. 142497, 1H+AF
Ju 88A-4 W.Nr. 140291, 1H+DF
Ju 88A-4 W.Nr. 140735, 1H+KF
With no information given of a 5th aircraft.

Upon visiting the crash sites of these aircraft this summer I begun to wonder if the given version of the aircraft are correct or if they were just written down as such may be for lack of time and/or interest - the end of the war was near.

Remains of two torpedoes were found at two of the crash sites so it could suggest A-17 versions or I guess it could also mean the A-4/torp version - there was one such wasn't it?

On one wing of the third aircraft we saw the remains of what seemed to be fittings for a radarantenna, I guess it would be one of the shipping radars used and ETC bomb racks.

I'd be very interested in any information that could help me verify the identities and versions of these aircraft.

Thanks for your help!
/Mikael

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Ronny
The crash
Mon Sep 2 20:46:04 2024
217.144.228.188

These five aircrafts were on a transfer from France?, and landed at first in Trondheim because of the bad forecast. They asked for permission to wait for better weather, but it was refused. Then they asked for guidance-aircraft, but that was also refused. They had to go all by themself. Weather was really bad that day. It was a funeral on that day in the village closest to the crash-site, and people couldn`t understand why the airplanes came that way. They counted five!! aircrafts, and shortly after they had passed overhead, they could hear explosions.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Mikael Olrog
The Crash
Tue Sep 3 17:37:12 2024
212.247.11.120

Hi Ronny,

I'm kind of continuing the discussion you and I started in Norway, to see if the subtypes and identities can be veryfied.

/Mikael

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Jim P.
KG 26 losses 1945
Sun Sep 1 22:31:53 2024
209.237.197.40

As listed in the Gen.Qu. reports:

Flugzeuge WNr. Pilot Name FF or vics Staffel or Gruppe KG Nummer Farbe Kennummer Stammkennzeichen Markings Date Remarks Other Comments Front References See Also Locale Bruch % H/F
Ju 88A-17 550951 Bettin, Ofw. Erich 4. KG 26 1H+AM 07-Feb-45 MIA with crew, cause unknown. Norwegen Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #12) 100% F
Ju 88A-17 141279 Burgdorf, Ltn. Harald 6. KG 26 1H+MP 07-Feb-45 MIA with crew due to own ship's Flak. Norwegen Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #12) 100% F
Ju 88A-17 4578 Göhring, Ofw. Helmut 6. KG 26 1H+EP 07-Feb-45 MIA with crew, cause unknown. Norwegen Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #12) 100% F
Ju 88A-17 142102 II. KG 26 07-Feb-45 Notlandung due to fuel shortage. Norwegen Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #12) West of Oerlandet b F
Ju 88A-17 300069 Breu, Oblt. Günther 1. KG 26 wei§ B 1H+BH 10-Feb-45 MIA with crew, cause unknown. Norwegen Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #12) 100% F
Ju 88A-17 801600 Hühner, Ltn. Georg 1. KG 26 wei§ H 1H+HH 10-Feb-45 MIA with crew, cause unknown. Norwegen Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #12) 100% F
Ju 88A-17 884626 Eigendorf, Uffz. Karl 2. KG 26 1H+AK 10-Feb-45 MIA with crew, cause unknown. Norwegen Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #12) 100% F
Ju 88A-17 885565 Burtscher, Ltn. Johannes I. KG 26 10-Feb-45 WIA due to Flak. Bruchlandung. Norwegen Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #12) Fl.Pl. Bardufoß 30% F
Ju 88A-17 883924 Schäfer, Ltn. Gerhard I. KG 26 10-Feb-45 Bruchlandung due to Flak. Crew WIA. Norwegen Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #12) Andenes 75% F
Ju 88A-17 142060 Löckher, Fw. Andreas (B)/Mörzel, Uffz. Hans (F) II. KG 26 20-Feb-45 MIA with crew, cause unknown. Norwegen Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #12) 100% F
Ju 88A-17 800631 Allhoff, Uffz. Otto II. KG 26 20-Feb-45 MIA with crew, cause unknown. Norwegen Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #12) 100% F
Ju 88A-17 822626 Anders, Ltn. Walter 7. KG 77 06-Nov-43 Injured in crash. Rest of crew KIC. Germany Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #12)-Vol.23 Rigaer-Bucht 100% H
Ju 88A-17 141158 Hartwig, Ofhr. Jürgen 4. KG 26 1H+LM 09-Feb-45 MIA with crew, cause unknown. Norwegen BA-MA Signatur RL 2 III/766, p.99 100% F
Ju 88A-17 550965 Blum, Uffz. Hermann 5. KG 26 1H+EN 10-Feb-45 MIA with crew, cause unknown. Norwegen BA-MA Signatur RL 2 III/766, p.99 100% F
Ju 88A-17 301449 Rögner, Oblt. Rudolf 6. KG 26 1H+HP 10-Feb-45 MIA with crew, cause unknown. Norwegen BA-MA Signatur RL 2 III/766, p.99 100% F
Ju 88A-17 886752 Schlögel, Ltn. Manfred 6. KG 26 1H+FP 10-Feb-45 MIA with crew, cause unknown. Norwegen BA-MA Signatur RL 2 III/766, p.99 100% F

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Artie Bob
Ju 88 A-17
Mon Sep 2 01:27:16 2024
63.189.200.56

IMHO Jim Perry's loss list id of A-17 subtype for these a/c is probably correct, but note the random distribution of W.nrs, from early to late. This is because all A-17s were rebuilt from earlier "A" subtypes, possibly all coming off the lines as A-4s. In trying to evaluate photos of the a/c, I believe that all A-17s had gondolas removed when converted. So this is an id help, although the gondola could be removed in the field. Another characteristic of the A-17 was triangular cutouts at the inboard end of the flaps to provide clearance on the torpedo.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Richard Byrd
KG26 Losses
Sun Sep 1 23:03:48 2024
65.33.216.64

16 aircraft with most of their crews in just 4 days? What happened?

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Michi
KG 26 in Norway 1945...
Sun Sep 1 23:42:18 2024
140.78.3.1

As far as I can remember,
a few points led to this losses.

a.) A group of KG 26 was ordered to attack a convoy at the very end of the range of the Ju 88's.

b.) The trainings flight for torpedo bombers were very limited, due lack of fuel.

c.) Also navigationing was not on the standard of the early years of war.

d.) AFAIK there was an exchange of or within the KG 26 at this time.

This didn't happen only in February 1945, but also in April 1945 with even heavier losses!!

MfG Michi

PS: My source was a book on the KG 26, which is somewhere in my archive.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

michael meyer
Re: KG 26 in Norway 1945...
Mon Sep 2 21:32:09 2024
62.134.86.176

hi, here´s some info from Erich Schmidts book "Torpedos los"
and the website about the Banff wing and SIG Norway.

April 21 1945.
An armed patrol of forty-five Mosquito’s (of 144, 235, 248 Squadrons, RAF, 333 Squadron Norwegian AF) and twenty-four Mustangs, fly an anti-shipping strike over the Kattegat and Denmark. No shipping was spotted but at position 5120N 0300E,a formation of twelve JU 88s and six JU 188s were spotted on their way to the Scottish mainland with a belated effort to try and harry a shipping convoy on its way to Scotland. With no fighter escort to worry about the Mosquito’s attacked, and in the ensuing air combat that followed nine enemy aircraft were shot down in flames, with no loss to the strike wing.10 Ju.88 of II./K.G.26 under command of Oblt Dombowski were to attack shipping with torpedoes n. of Petershead and 8 Ju.188 der III./K.G.26 under command of Hptm. Gehring s. of Petershead. For this effort the german bombers transferred from Bardufoss to Stavanger the day(s) before. The attack surprised II. Gruppe in 300m height 100km S of the Norwegian coast. With fighters above them they couldn´t reach the cloud ceiling in 500m and lost 6 Ju.88s and 24 men. The remaining Ju.88s dropped their torpedoes and escaped damaged. The Ju.188 defended themselves well claiming 2 Mosquitos s/d (none actually lost) for 1 loss. The germans wrongly assumed that the RAF formation had previously attacked german airfields in Danmark.
Lost from II./ K.G. 26 were 6 Ju.88s and the following crews:
1.Oblt. Karl-Heinz Küchenmeister, Uffz. Siegfried Berndt, Georg Bollwinkel, Fw. Heinz Schaller
2. Lt. Gerhard Schäfer, Uffz. Otto Bauer, Fw. Hubert Hoppe, Ogefr. Richard Gattner
3. Uffz. Kurt Langendorf, Uffz. Stephan Schmädicke, Ogefr. Hans Holländer, Fw. Werner Jorden
4. Fw. Hubert Traub, Uffz. Karl Walldorf, Ewald Wolkenhoff, Heinz Reale
5. Oblt. Fritz Dombrowkski, Fähnr. Alfons Pallek, Fw. Johannes Stumpf, Gefr. Koglin
6. Oblt. Friedrich Ebert, Ofw. Helmut von der Höh, Uffz. Willi Flesch, Ogefr. Harald Reimer
All 24 men never showed up again, MIA.
III./ K.G. 26 lost one Ju.188 and one crew:
Ofw. Zimmermann, Ofw. Herbert Kunze, Fw. Behrend, Ofw. Weyhrauch all MIA.

greetings

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

David Pausey
Thanks Michael for the time & effort you put in.
Wed Sep 4 16:03:44 2024
195.92.67.75

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Pepe
michael meyer superstar
Fri Sep 6 15:00:11 2024
141.83.2.153

The KG 26 book was written by Rudi (not Erich!!!!) Schmitt.
Regards
pepe

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

David Pausey
Thanks Pepe
Fri Sep 6 18:36:18 2024
195.92.67.69

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Jim P.
I have too say I don't really know.....
Mon Sep 2 00:48:46 2024
209.237.196.71

I would presume attacks against some convoy off Norway, but to be honest I've spent so much time just trying to record all the reported LW losses throughout the war, I haven't had the time to actually check on very many specific events that led to these or other attacks and losses.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

David Pausey
Any info on 21-4-45?
Mon Sep 2 20:18:29 2024
195.92.67.75

Hello
On the 21st of April 45 the Banff Wing ran into KG26? who had been attacking convoy JW66.The wing claimed 9 dest & after the war W/C Foxley-Norris (who led the wing)met Colonel Hans Geisemann,who told him that only two aircraft got back(out of 18 I think).Are there any details on losses for this late stage in the war?
Regards
David

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Andreas Brekken
KG 26 losses 1945
Tue Sep 3 01:02:46 2024
129.240.241.3

Hi!

While visiting BAMA Freiburg I found a document which contained the losses of KG 26 during the anti-shipping operations in Norway.

Will check for details.

Andreas

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

David Pausey
Thanks Andreas,looking forward to the details if any.
Wed Sep 4 16:01:32 2024
195.92.67.75

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Andreas Brekken
2 Ju 188 + 6 Ju 88
Tue Sep 3 01:07:17 2024
129.240.241.3

Hi.

The unit themselves list 2 Ju 188(LT) and 6 Ju 88(LT) as lost during an attack in the dusk on this day.

Units III. and II./KG 26 respectively.

Reason for the loss given as "shot down by Mosquito unit".

No loss details in these lists I am afraid.

Regards,

Andreas Brekken

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Andreas Brekken
The location is also noted (n/t)
Tue Sep 3 01:07:58 2024
129.240.241.3

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Mikael Olrog
KG 26 losses and thanks for the help!
Mon Sep 2 18:30:22 2024
213.89.103.197

Many thanks for all your help, I'll digest the information and see what I can get out of the puzzle.

The 4-5 wrecks I'm investigating were approaching Bardufoss AFB in bad weather and made a wrong turn into a U shaped valley and they hit the mountain at the end of the valley probably before they understood what happened.
/Mikael

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Stefano Schembri
Vergeltungswaffe Eins: eine kleine Frage
Thu Oct 17 15:01:42 2024
212.171.146.36

Good morning Gentlemen,

I'm looking for some information about the V1 concerning its paint schemes. Has anybody a profile set with views from the top as well? I would like to know, in particular, if the mottled camouflage wore by some V1 was also painted on the wings or just on the fuselage.

Ich danke Ihnen!

Ciao!
Stefano,
Italien.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Mikael Olrog
V 1
Fri Oct 18 16:40:03 2024
212.247.11.120

There's one preserved V1 with original mottled camoflauge still on it. That example does have mottle on top of the wings, so the answer is yes. It's the example preserved in Sweden and currently on display at the recently opened Arboga Missile Museum ca 200 km to the west of Stockholm.

/Mikael
www.axisaircraft.com