Museum with Luftwaffe aircraft - 2

[Bertrand HUGOT]

Between the towns of Reims and Chalons en Champagne there is a nice free museum which presents the History of the Condé - Vraux Airfield during the air war 39/45 in the champagne aera.

Buffs have gathered a lot of documents, materials, parts of aircraft, and the like that they are keen on at crashes sites where they find most of their discoveries, including, of course, Luftwaffe parts, e.g., wheel and undercarrige of a Bf109, rear part of a very rare Hs 129, differents tanks, propellers, canopies etc...

This museum is open every day 1 to 31 July, 14 : 00 / 18: 30, and every weekend 31 july - 31 october 14 : 00 / 18 : 30.

Address

Musée du terrain d'aviation de Vraux

28 rue basse

51150 VRAUX

FRANCE

03.26.66.12.10
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/alain.lorente/menu_vr.htm


------------------

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Mikael Olrog
Techniches Museum Berlin in 1940's
Wed May 2 14:18:35 2024


Does anyone have a complete listing of the aircraft that was part of this collection before it was destroyed/dispersed? Or can you suggest a website or book where I can find it?

I'm curious to know to what extent they added captured aircraft to their collection or if it was strictly german aircraft only.

Thanks for your help!
/Mikael

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Tom Willis
Deutsche Luftfahrt -Sammlung-Berlin
Wed May 2 21:20:16 2024


Hi

This collection was a unique collection and did indeed have in it's inventory quite a few Beute aircraft from many countries aswell as captured First World War!

Airco DH 9A
Sopwith Camel
Spad S13
Spad SA-2

Bloch MB 200 (ex Czech a/c)
Fairey Battle I (ex RAF)
Gloster Gladiator Mk II (ex Baltic States?)
Hawker Hurricane I (ex RAF)
Yak 1 (ex Russian)
MiG 3 (ex Russian)
Morane MS 230 (ex French)
Morane MS 406 (ex French)
UTI 4 (ex Russian)
I-16 (ex Russian) 'Rata'
Potez 63-11 (ex French)
PZL P-38/I (ex Polish)
PZL P.11c (ex Polish)
PWS 26 (ex Polish) 'still with Lw markings'
Spifire II (ex RAF)
Wellington II (ex RAF) 'in wrecked condition'

a mystery!!!

Stinson L-5 Sentinel; s/n 42-98643

I am not sure whether this was a part of the original collection but when some of the aircraft were discovered at Krakow in Poland after the war most of the aircraft were from this collection. The Sentinel was discovered with them.

Can anybody help.

In response to Hans when he visited the Museum some the beute aircraft may have been taken out and stored. Like all museums evrything changes from time to time, things added and items taken away.

The Luftwaffe too had a museum were all of the collection consisted of foreign and beute aircraft called BeutePark de Lw 5 at Nanterre in Paris.

Kind regards

Tom Willis

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Dave Pawlikowski
He-177 in a museum?
Sat Jun 2 01:04:53 2024


Did any He-177 survive the conflict and end up in a museum afterward?

Was the plane tested by the Allies after WW2? Saved, scrapped,or other?

TIA

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Mikael Olrog
Some remains
Sat Jun 2 14:40:03 2024


You can see photos of two different He 177 undercarriages on my site as well as a photo of a DB 610 preserved in England.

www.algonet.se/~molrog/

Go to the section /german aircraft/relics/ and
/german aircraft/engines/DaimlerBenz/

/Mikael

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Dave
Paris 190
Sat Oct 13 09:41:12 2024


Hi all

The NC.900 on display at Le Bourget has been identified trough discovery of a data plate , as
Focke Wulf Fw 190 A-8, construction number 730924 (AGO production from May/June
1944) with the factory code TL+WJ.
Does anyone have anything on her Luftwaffe history ??

TIA

Dave

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Andreas Brekken
730921 & 730923
Tue Oct 16 08:22:43 2024


Hi.

Haven't got anything yet on this airframe.

However, 730921 was damaged 40% at the AGO Werke on 28. May 1944.

730923 was destroyed as "Blaue 2" of 7./JG 51 on July 4. 1944.

Regards,

Andreas

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Christian Schulz
The French 190s - short question
Sat Oct 13 15:33:48 2024


I am not sure about that but were the post-war 190s in France not patched together from spare parts found in the different factories? If so then I wonder how anybody could "identify" a single plane afterwards.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Dave
More ...
Sat Oct 13 21:12:51 2024


Christian

This from a friend in France .....

Regarding the French Fw190, it is a real Focke-Wulf but composed of 2 Fw190 airframes, Fw190A-7 and Fw190A-8. There was a repair centre at Auxerre where a lot of airframes were undergoing repair for the Luftwaffe.
So in theory you are correct , but the construction nummer being found gives this particular aircraft an identity - even if the whole airframe is not from one particular example . I guess it is speculation which parts are from the A-7 !

regards

Dave

[Richard T Eger]

The Virtual Aviation Museum website's strength is in its listing of aviation museums in Europe. While there is the occasional photo and minimal technical and historical detail, these are not the site's strenghts. The address of the site is:

http://www.luftfahrtmuseum.com/htmi/general/i.htm


Sections of Luftwaffe interest:


<U>Aircraft types</U>

Listed by name, designer, and category, a broad, but light depth coverage is made of much of the world's aircraft output.


<U>References</U>

Currently, there is only a listing of magazines worldwide. The intent is to add sections on famous aviators and a dictionary of aviation terms.


<U>Museums in Europe</U>

France

<U>Collection de l'Amicale Jean Babtiste Salis, Cerny / La Ferté Alais</U>

Bücker BÜ 131 Jungmann, F-AZBZ
Bücker BÜ 133 Jungmeister
Fieseler Fi 156 Storch reconnaissance and liason airplane

<U>Musée de l'Air et de L'Espace, Le Bourget</U>

Bücker Bü 181 Bestmann
Casa Ca 1.109 Buch&oacuti;n, 156, C4K
DFS Habicht aerobatics soaring plane, 1, F-CAEX
DFS Kranich II, 1399
DFS Weihe high performance soaring plane, F-CBGR
DFS Olympia Meise high performance soaring plane, F-CRBT
Focke Achgelis FA 330 Bachstelze
Focke Wulf FW 190 A-8 fighter
Grunau Baby II, 10849
Heinkel He 162 Salamander
Junkers F 13
Stamer Lippisch Schulgleiter 38(verkleidet), 150
Stamer Lippisch Schulgleiter 38 glider for basic flight instruction, 173
Zeppelin LZ 77 Navy-Airship


Regards,
Richard

[Richard T Eger]

The French language site 340Squadron.fr.st states its purpose to be:

"Homage to the RAF N°340 Squadron / Group of hunting of French Air Forces Free G.C 4/2 " Island of France " and with the FAFL - FAF of 1940 to 1945"

Of especial Luftwaffe interest are the photo galleries, including German and foreign aircraft in Luftwaffe service and German aircraft in French service and/or markings. The website address is:

http://batfredland.free.fr/340Squadron.htm

1943-1945 Gallerie Luftwaffe - Brief histories with photos of Luftwaffe aircraft.

Fw 190 - 1 b&w, 1 color
Ta 152 - 1 b&w
Me 109G6 - 1 color, black 6
Me 109G14 - 1 color
Me 110 - 1 color
He 219 - 1 color
Do 335 - 2 b&w, 1 color - NASM, VG+PH
Me 262A1 - 1 color, NASM, yellow 7
Me 262B-1a/U1 - 1 color, FE-610
He 162 - 1 color, Musée de l'Air et de l'Espace du Bourget, yellow 1
Me 163 - 1 color
Go 229 - 1 b&w, 1 color of Heller model kit drawing
Ar 234 - 1 b&w
Ar 234C - 1 color?
Me 410A3 - 1 color?
Ju 87 - 1 b&w
Hs 129 - 1 b&w
Hs 129B-3/wa - 1 color profile
Ju 88D - 1 color
Ju 88G6 - 1 b&w
Ju 188 - 1 b&w
Do 217E-2 - 1 b&w
Do 217J-2 - 1 b&w
Leo 451 T - 1 b&w
He 111 - 1 b&w
He 111Z-1 - 1 b&w
He 177 carrying FX1400 Fritz or Hs293a - 1 b&w
Fw 200 - 2 b&w
Ju 290 - 1 b&w
Ju 388 - 1 b&w
Ju 390 - 2 b&w
Me 321 - 1 b&w
Me 323 - 1 b&w, 1 color
Bv 222 - 2 b&w
Bv 222A-0 V8 - 1 b&w
Ju 52 / 3m - 1 b&w
Ju 252 - 2 b&w
Fl 282 - 2 b&w
Fa 223 - 1 b&w
Fa 225 - 1 b&w
Fa 330 - 2 b&w
Fi 156 - 2 color
Bv 141 - 1 b&w
Hs 126 - 2 color
Hs 123 - 1 b&w
Ar 232 - 2 b&w
Si 204 - 1 b&w
DFS 230 - 1 b&w
Go 242 - 1 b&w
Go 244 - 1 b&w
Ju 287V1 - 2 b&w
Messerschmitt P 1101 - 1 b&w
Ba 349 - 2 b&w
Fi 103R - 1 b&w
Mistel 1 - 2 b&w
Mistel 2 - 1 b&w
Dewoitine D 520 - 1 b&w
Ms 406 - 2 b&w
B-17 - 2 b&w
B-24 - 1 b&w
Bv 138 - 2 b&w
He 115 - 1 b&w

<U>Luftwaffe 1943-1945 : organisation et structures</U> - Brief article

1) Généralités et production (General information and production)

- Includes color photo of Fw 190D9

2) Structures et organisation (Structures and organization)

Galerie Forces Aériennes Françaises 1943-1945 (Gallery French Air Forces 1943-1945) - Brief histories with photos.

Focke-Wulf FW 190 A4 alias SNCAC NC 900 - 1 b&w photo
Fieseler Storch Fi 156 alias Morane Saulnier MS 500 Criquet - 1 b&w
Do 335B V14 - 1 b&w
Me 262A2 - 1 b&w
Ju 88A4 - 1 b&w
Ju 188E - 1 b&w
Do 24T - 1 b&w
Mitsubishi A6M2-N - 1 b&w

Organisation F.A.F 1945 - Tabular data. Shows use of much Allied and some German aircraft.

Regards,
Richard

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Dave Brown
trudav@tusco.net
Augsburg Aircraft Museum - Messerschmitt Bf109G-6
Fri Aug 9 17:51:07 2024
64.5.162.227

I plan to visit the Augsburg museum on Tuesday, September 03, 2024 in order to see the Messerschmitt Bf109G-6. In order to avoid disappointment, does anyone know for sure that this aircraft is on-site? I believe this aircraft is airworthy and as such, does the airshow circuit.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Juergen
Bf 109 G-6
Fri Aug 9 19:14:15 2024
217.228.35.218

Hello Dave,

I don´t know about an airworthy Gustav at Augsburg, but rather at Manching near Ingolstadt. The aircraft is on display regularly (e. g. at the Internationale Luftfahrtaus-stellung Berlin) but suffered a mechanical damage this spring, so I think there is no possibility this year to see it taking to the air.
There is another Gustav (G-2), again on static display only, at the Technikmuseum Speyer. I recommend you go spotting this example.

Regards, Juergen

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Rudi
Bf 109 G-6
Sat Aug 10 01:58:26 2024
62.155.254.209

EADS had three Bf 109,two in flying conditions and one for display,this Gustav was a long time in
Augsburg and is now for a year or two in Paris,Bf 109 G-6 and G-10 stand in Manching with
technical problems.

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Hervé B.
Herve***no@spam***cocardes.com
Photo : Südwall remains ?
Fri Aug 23 21:38:33 2024
80.15.67.86

Hi,
Saw today during a walk on seaside in South-East France these remains. I think they are of a radar type Sëetakt but not sure. Can someone tell me more ?
See photo at : http://herve.brun.free.fr/Divers/baseradar.jpg
Cheers,
Hervé.

[This message has been edited by Richard T Eger (edited 18 September 2024).]

[Richard T Eger]

Colonel Blade's Ju 88 - Archiv website is devoted to the Ju 88 family of aircraft. The address of this German language site is:

http://www.ju88-archiv.de/ju88/main.htm

Sections of interest are:

Privat (Personal) - Color photo of a display model of a Ju 88 apparently of WW II origin.

Neues (New) - Site updates

Geschichte (History) - Early history of development of the Ju 88 with 12 b & w photos.

Versionen (Versions) - Fairly complete coverage of the various versions up through the Ju 488 with capsule descriptions, b & w photos, and color profiles. Includes an interesting development progression chart.

Geschwader (Squadron) - Listing by squadron identification, Kennzeichen, and Ju 88 versions flown.

Museum - Listing of known existing Ju 88 family aircraft from wrecks to museums. A number of these include photographs. Countries where Ju 88 family aircraft are currently located are:

Germany
Norway
Belgium
USA
USA - NASM Garber restoration facility
Great Britain
Piräus
Euböa
East coast of the Peloponnes
Crete
Russia
Finnland
Le Frioul bei Marseille
Nordskyn peninsula at the north cape

Quellen (Sources) - Descriptions with color cover photos of 15 books.

Forum - Presumably a discussion forum, but I could not open this page.

Links - 7 Luftwaffe history related links.

Regards,
Richard

[Richard T Eger]

From within a thread on 12 O'Clock High!:

J.L.Santos Junior
Fw 58 in a Lake in France
Mon Jun 2 05:50:29 2024
200.141.15.180

Any news about the Fw 58 in a lake in France ("Le Fana de Aviation March 1995")

[Richard T Eger]

From 12 O'Clock High!:

J.L.Santos junior
French Fw 190
Sun Aug 31 04:03:43 2024
200.195.103.219

Was the Fw 190 used by French Air Force after WW II? Is it true that they had a lot of "improvements" made by Resistence, so these "home modifications" caused a large number of accidents?
TIA
J.L.Santos Junior

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Stef
Yes, that's true
Sun Aug 31 07:57:46 2024
81.51.166.122

Normandie Niemen was one of the squadron to use these aircraft after WW2 when their Yak-3 were out of spare parts to be maintained.
The aircraft came from repair factories and were A5 and A8.
These had some troubles first because the aircraft were also somehow badly repaired by resistant during WW2 and then because the Normandie pilots weren't very happy to fly an aircraft they faught in Russia with their Yaks.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Peter "Mikolaj" Mikolajski
Re: Yes, that's true
Sun Aug 31 10:37:58 2024
213.25.17.249

As Stef said, these Fw 190 were A-5 and A-8 versions. Total 64 planes were built in 1945 and 1946 under French designation NC.900 in ex-Luftwaffe repair facility at Cravant (after war called SNCAC). If you know Fw 190A-8 from Paris-Le Bourget museum (exhibited as Priller's personal "black 13"), this is repainted NC.900.

HTH

Regards,

Peter