The Luftwaffe Archives & Records Reference Group

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Richard T Eger 02-12-2002 06:48 AM

From 12 O'Clock High!:

[email protected]
FW190F8 / SG2 "Black 43", Yugoslavia, Kovin
Sat Jan 12 23:54:14 2002

Today in Yugoslav Airforce Museum lucky one can see FW190F8. I say lucky one since FW is in storage and still its not HIS/HER turn for restoration!

AND TO GO THEIR U NEED TO PULL STRINGS HIGH IN ARMY TOPS but as I've said there are lucky ones

*** Note: Beside FW190F8 in the storage one can see few more parts of invisible F-117 (quite visible over there (aldo in quite bad shape since it was shoot down), pieces of F-16 in similar shape, Fiat G50 Bis... ETC


And here we go: (Please visit)

I'll translate some of the most important things written there!!!

Text claims that FW190 F8 from YuAF Museum was from SG2 (Schlachtgeschwader 2). It says that parts of SG2 were positioned in 1944 in northern part of Serbia called Banat in place Kovin and that they came there from Russia. At the end of 1944 Yugoslav Army captured that airfield and some Me109 G/K and ONE FW190 F8!

From Kovin these planes were than transferred to Zemun Airport near Belgrade where YuAF markings were painted over Luftwaffe markings! A/C was used in YuAF in 1945/46. After that it spent some time on open exhibition where German markings were again redrawn over YuAF.

Its know that FW190F8 had W.Nr. 930838 and that it was produced in Nord-deutsche Dornier Werke (NDW) (factory), Wismar, Berlin. It was part of SG2.
A/C was equipped with older straight canopy.

People in museum are not sure what was the original colours of the plane because it had so 'hard life".
There are few possibilities: 70/75/76 with mottling in 02/70... than "standard" 74/75/76... than 83/75/76 where mottling was done with 81/83...

It is believed that this plane was most probably PAINTED in 70/75/76!

In SG2 our FW190F8 was marked with Black 43 (outlined in white) and it was renumbered in YuAF in White 11, where Luftwaffe crosses and No. were over painted.

It is believed that a/c used to have Black spinner with white spiral.

Exhaust panel was painted with Black and outlined with white!

All the stencils were standard ones.

It seems that during LWF usage they removed lower surfaces ETC 50 racks and that places were over painted with RLM 02.

All the trim tabs were painted red (not "vien rot").
It says also that upper wing crosses were white crosses (910mm), lower surfaces ones were simplified (900mm) and fuselage 800mm black/white/black ones.

A/C used to have Yellow "V" painted on lower surface of left wing, which was coming on the top of the upper surface.

There were no other special markings (unit badge of any kind or RV band, etc.)

IM INTERESTED in following (concerning FW while in LW markings):

*1 DO YOU HAVE ANY SUGESTIONS CONCERNING COLOURS? (Is that 70/75/76 possible or it should be something else?)



*4 WHAT SIZE AND POSITION SHOULD BE (UNDER WING) "V"? (Also I've seen somewhere that "V" under both wings?)




Note: I can explain why I'm asking you people for all this things and not someone in YuAF Museum, but I don't wanna do it in public. We c

Richard T Eger 02-12-2002 06:49 AM

From TOCH!:

13/SG 151
Sun Jan 13 11:48:06 2002

Zdravo Misko,
There are many indications that our Fw belonged to 13/SG 151 and not SG 2. Conclusion of some people in MJV that it belonged to SG 2 is based on fact that it is of a certain subtype which was in use by one certain Gruppe, or Staffel, of SG 2 (cant remember the details), which cannot mean that no other SG could not have received it. High unit number could also indicate that it belonged to training unit, and especially date of its capture.
Dont be so harsh at our friends in MJV, be lucky for being able to see many splendid machines in exibition area.
And about the colors, I think that Dragan Munizaba is the man you have to look for. From all people in MJV, he has spent most time in studying the Fw.


Richard T Eger 02-12-2002 11:10 AM

The site noted by Miska above is MAKETORAMA - Serbian & Yugoslav Air Force Markings. The site address is:

Here there are links not only to the page on the Fw 190F8, but also pages on Me-109G, 1. deo and Me-109G, 2. deo.

Fw 190F-8 - Fortunately, Misko has provided much of the translation for the text on this page. In addition to the text, this page shows the following illustrations:

1) An actual photo of the aircraft in the basement of the museum.

2) A color photo of the NASM Fw 190.

3) A color profile drawing of Fw 190F-8 in original markings, Luftwaffe SG-2, late 1944, Kovin Airport.

4) A 3-view color drawing of Fw 190F-8 in markings of Y.A.F. Liason Squadron, 1945, Zemun Airport.

5) A downloadable plan of all of the above views plus an extra side view.

Me 109G, 1. deo

<U>Me 109G-10 (2105)</U> - Illustrations in this article are:

1) 2-view color drawing of Me 109G-10 in Y.A.F. markings, black 3.

2) 2-view color drawing of Me 109G-10 in Y.A.F. markings, white 44.

3) A downloadable plan of all of the above views.

Bf 109G, 2. deo

<U>Bf 109G-10, br. 9645, 83.LAP</U> - Illustrations in this article are:

1) A 2-view color drawing of Bf 109G-10, no. 9645, Pula Airbase, October 1950.

<U>Bf-109G-2, br. 9663, zbirka MJV</U> - Illustrations in this article are:

1) A 2-view color drawing of Bf 109G-2, no. 9663, from Yugoslav Aviation Museum.

Both aircraft are color drawings are shown in a downloadable plan.


[This message has been edited by Richard T Eger (edited 12 February 2002).]

Richard T Eger 04-07-2002 05:43 PM

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Ex NSGr. 10 Stuka sold
Thu Mar 21 19:44:26 2002

I just received sad news (sad for us people here) that Yugoslav aeronautical museum has sold its uncomplete Ju 87B-2 to english byer for 50.000 USD (surely so). Plane is W.Nr. 0406 "VE+KU" and was captured in 1945. It was used in combat during closing stages of war by provisional partisan squadron. After the war it was used at Technical university in Belgrade for studying purposes. Museum took it over in mid fifties. Sold parts include fuselage with wing root, propeller and both legs, but not the engine. Single part that will remain here to remind us of it is its tail.


Richard T Eger 02-11-2003 02:25 PM

From 12 O'Clock High!:

[email protected]
Ex LFW aircrafts in YU on CD rom s
Fri Dec 27 12:08:38 2002

For sale or swap ,

Yugoslav aviation related kits, magazines, CD ROMs, books , decals ...
could be find at:
Aeropoxy & YASIG:

Yugoslav Aviation Museum walkaround
777 High quality photographs , screen size( 1024x768) sorted and organiseed in galeries, html linked, for all exposed and few "under reconstruction"exponates( like Fiat G50, P-38, Stealth F117...)
The CD is auto run, which means that automaticaly starts your internet browser( Internet Explorer, Netscape, etc).
These photographs were result of few years of work and presents the most complete virtual tour of Yugoslav Aviation Museum collection.

Soko G2A Galeb close up
120 High quality photographs , screen size( 1024x768) sorted and organiseed in galeries, html linked, presenting the Soko GALEB , indigenous Yugoslav Jet trainer. The scale drawings, colour profiles, pages from official manual are also included.
The CD is auto run, which means that automaticaly starts your internet browser( Internet Explorer, Netscape, etc).

Mig 21 F13 close up
101 High quality photograph , screen size( 1024x768) sorted and organiseed in galeries, html linked, presenting the Mig 21 F13 , From Yugoslav Aviation Museum collection and NS Time Caffe example.
The colour profiles are also included.
The CD is auto run, which means that automaticaly starts your internet browser( Internet Explorer, Netscape, etc).

YASIG & Model Art CD archive
14 Yugoslav Aviation SIG bulletins published from 1995, including all the Model Art and YASIG issues( the current,YASIG 2002 issue are also included). 450+ pages, 300 articles with scale drawings and painting schemes,related to Yugoslav aviation, organised and sorted as galeries, with thumbnail previews.
All the pages are printable in full A4 size.
The CD is auto run, which means that automaticaly starts your internet browser( Internet Explorer, Netscape, etc).

AEROPOXY Resin kits :
First Yugoslav jet plane:
Ikarus 451m 1/72 scale 15$/EUR
Yugoslav WW II Fighters:
Ikarus IK-L1 1/72
Ikarus IK-2 1/72
Rogozarski IK-3 1/72, 1/48 and 1/32 scale
Yugoslav modern trainers
Utva 75(V-53) 1/72
Utva 75 A(four seater) 1/72
Yugoslav jet attack plane
J-22 Orao Tomahawk killer 1/72

Aeropoxy resin kits,come with airbrushing Cool Mask and Cool Frame for canopy frames.
Decals stencils,serials etc included.

Reprints of WW II aviation manuals

Savoia Marchetti SM 79 Mannual/Parts catalog(copy)
"Catalogo Nomenclatore per aeroplane SM 79 da bombardamento"
Printed by "Societa Anonima Aeronautica Umbra-Foligno"- Roma 1940.
220 pages A4(on Italian)

Fieseler FI-156 C(Baureihe C1)-Storch "Truppen-Ersatzteilliste"
(Parts catalog/Mannual)
Official Fieseler Werke 1938. published mannual(on German)
copy, , 80+ pages A4
Detail part drawings, listings,parts catalog...

Messerschmitt BF 109 E (DB 601) mannual
Official Messerschmitt werke, 1940. published mannual for Royal Yugoslav AF delivered Emil's(on Serbian)
Detail part drawings, instructions,listings,...
1940.-reprint, 90 pages A4,

For more details, lists, scans and kit photographs, ordering and payment info go to:

Aeropoxy & YASIG:

or ask at e-mail: [email protected]

Nenad Miklusev

AEROPOXY resin kits & Yugoslav Aviation SIG

Richard T Eger 05-14-2003 11:40 AM

From 12 O'Clock High!:

FI-156 archive CD ROM FS
Sun Apr 13 17:05:48 2003

For sale (or swap)
Fieseler FI 156 archive CD ROM, contains:

FI-156 Storch Partskatalog (80) pages(1938. issue)
FI-156 Storch scale drawings
FI-156 Storch Colour and painting schemes
FI-156 Photo galery( Belgrade Yugoslav Aviation Museum Storch/Cap)
FI-156 Storch History and technical datasheets
FI-156 Storch Russian derivative-AIST-OKA detaied drawings

CD rom is Auto Run, browsable in any Internet browser(Internet Explorer/Netscape Navigator/Opera etc...)

Cd Rom is priced 25 EUR/30 US$ (postage and packing included in price)

Great resource for modelers, homebuilders and historians...

Details at my e-mail: [email protected]

Thanx and Regards,

Richard T Eger 06-13-2003 02:03 PM

The Messerschmitt Bf 109 website by Andreas Goldmann covers the history of Prof. Messerschmitt; the Me 109 history, variants, armament, engines, and aces who flew the Me 109; and Spanish volunteers. There is a nice photo gallery, including photos of preserved aircraft. A listing of existing Bf 109 with short histories is provided along with some photos. The site address is:

Sections of interest are:

The Constructor: Professor Willi Messerschmitt - Short history of Messerschmitt and his company through WW II and beyond.

The Development of the Me 109 - Short history.

The "Me 109" Versions - Brief technical data and photos of:

Bf 109 A
Bf 109 B "Berta"
Bf 109 C "Cäsar"
Bf 109 D "Dora"
Bf 109 E "Emil"
BF 109 F "Friedrich"
Bf 109 G "Gustav"
Bf 109 H
Bf 109 K
Bf 109 T

The Engines of the "Me 109" - Brief descriptions of the engines and the variants they were used in:

Junkers Jumo 210
Daimler-Benz DB 600
Daimler-Benz DB 601
Daimler-Benz DB 605

The Armament of the Me 109 - Descriptions and photos of:

Guns and Cannons

"Me 109" Projects - Descriptions and histories. One plan of Me 309.

Bf 109 V-21
Bf 109 X
Me 209
Me 309
Bf 109 Z
Bf 109 TL
Me P. 1091

Assembly Sets for the Me 109 G and K - Description.

RI through RVIII
Adaption Set AS
Assembly Set "trop"

Gallery - Photos of different variants.

Bf 109B - 1 b&w
Bf 109C - 1 b&w
Bf 109C-1 - 1 b&w
Bf 109D-1 - 1 b&w
Bf 109E - 5 b&w, 1 color
Bf 109E-1 - 1 b&w
Bf 109E-3 - 12 color (Deutsches Museum, Munich)
Bf 109E-3/B - 1 b&w
Bf 109E-4 - 2 b&w
Bf 109E-7 - 2 b&w
Bf 109E-7 - 6 color (restoration at the Fighter Factory, Suffolk, Virginia)
Bf 109F - 1 b&w
Bf 109F-2 Galland replica - 1 color (Australia)
Bf 109F-4 - 2 b&w
Bf 109F-4/trop - 18 color (Canada Aviation Museum)
Bf 109F-6 - 1 b&w
Bf 109G - 2 b&w
Bf 109G-2 - 7 color (Luftwaffenmuseum Berlin-Gatow) (with brief history)
Bf 109G-2 - 4 color (Luftwaffenmuseum Hannover-Laatzen)
Bf 109G-2 - 14 color (Messerschmitt-Foundation, pictured at Oberschleißheim)
Bf 109G-4 - 8 color (Technikmuseum Speyer)
Bf 109G-6 - 4 b&w
Bf 109G-6 (FM+BB) - 18 color (Messerschmitt-Foundation, Messerschmitt Stiftung)
Bf 109G-6 - 2 color (Auto Technik Museums Sinsheim)
Bf 109G-6/R-6 - 1 b&w
Bf 109G-6/Y (MT-507) - 1 color (Central Finland Aviation Museum)
Bf 109G-10 - 2 b&w
Bf 109G-10 (black 2) - 17 color
Bf 109G-10 - 1 color (Evergreen Aviation Museum, Oregon)
Bf 109G10/R2 - 1 color
Bf 109G-12 - 1 b&w
Bf 109G-14 - 1 b&w
Bf 109K-4

Unit Organisation of the Luftwaffe - Descriptions and aircraft markings.


Asse auf der Me 109 - In German, biographies with photos of the following aces:

Wilhelm Balthasar
Heinz Bär
Gerhard Barkhorn
Wilhelm Batz
Gyorgy Debrody
Georg-Peter Eder
Adolf Galland
Gordon M. Gollob
Hermann Graf
Alfred Grislawski
Anton Hafner
Erich Hartmann
Dietrich Hrabak
Otto Kittel
Günther Lützow
Hans-Joachim Marseille
Werner Mölders
Joachim Müncheberg
Walter Nowotny
Günther Rall
Erich Rudorffer
Hans-Arnold Stahlschmidt
Johannes Steinhoff
Hannes Trautloft
Franz vom Werra
Helmut Wick
Johannes Wiese
Wolf-Dietrich Wilcke

Surviving Bf 109 - Brief histories, some with photos or links thereto.

Flying Bf 109

Bf 109 E-7 (Santa Monica, California/USA)
Bf 109 G-6 "FM + BB" (Messerschmitt-Stiftung/Germany)
Bf 109 G-10 "black 2"(Messerschmitt-Stiftung/Germany)

Static Display

Bf 109 E-3 (Munich/Germany)
Bf 109 E-3 (Duxford/England)
Bf 109 E-3 (Dübendorf/Switzerland)
Bf 109 E-3b (Hendon/England)
Bf 109 E-3 (Johannesburg/Southafrica)
Bf 109 E-4 (Mesa, Arizona/USA)
Bf 109 F-2/trop (Johannesburg/Southafrika)
Bf 109 F-4/trop. (Canada Aviation Museum, Ottawa/Canada)
Bf 109 G-2 (Messerschmitt-Foundation, Manching/Germany)
Bf 109 G-2 (Berlin-Gatow/Germany)
Bf 109 G-2 (Belgrade/Yugoslavia)
Bf 109 G-2 (Hannover-Laatzen/Germany)
Bf 109 G-2/trop. (Hendon/England)
Bf 109 G-4 (actually (2003) at Technik Museum Speyer)
Bf 109 G-5 (Dayton, Ohio/USA)
Bf 109 G-6 (Sinsheim/Germany)
Bf 109 G-6 (Utti/Finland)
Bf 109 G-6/Y (Tikkakoski/Finland)
Bf 109 G-6/R3 (Washington D.C./USA)
Bf 109 G-10 (McMinnville, Oregon/USA)

Restoration Projects

Bf 109 B/V-10a (Oberschleißheim/Munich)
Bf 109 E-1
Bf 109 E-1
Bf 109 E-3 (Berlin/Germany)
Bf 109 E-7
Bf 109 G-1/R2
Bf 109 G-6 (Australia)
Bf 109 G-6 (Australia)
Bf 109 G-6 (Cracow/Poland)


Bf 109 V-7
Bf 109 F-2
Bf 109 G-14/AS (Leipzig/Germany)

Specials - Special articles.

Bf 109 at the IV. International flight meeting at Zurich 1937 - Summary with tables and photos of this air meet a Dübendorf Airbase near Zurich in July 1937 in which 5 Bf 109's participated.

The Bf 109 V-13 breakes the F.A.I. world speed record - Article with photos of the Bf 109V-13 breaking the world speed record on Nov. 11, 1937.

The Blue Squadrons: Spanish volunteers in the Luftwaffe - History and photos for the 5 squadrons, their emblems, their uniforms, and pilots killed or missing in action.

The Ranks of Luftwaffe, RAF and US Airforce - Table of comparable ranks.

Links - 23 links to sites covering aircraft, pilots, units, and general WW II.


Richard T Eger 06-16-2003 09:46 PM

From 12 O'Clock High!:

FI 156 Storch color schemes
Wed May 14 19:21:01 2003

Look at Storch color schemes on Storch archive site/CD ROM/booklet presentation which could be find at:

Contains, 91 Storch color scheme,80 page Storch 1938. parts katalog-manual, scale draws, photo galery,Russian OKA 38 AIST Storch derivative, Yugoslav Ikarus Kurir Storch derivative draws, details, photographs and 50 page manual.

Great resource for all scale modelers.

e-mail: [email protected]

(Nenad has prepared a beautiful site on the Fi 156 with documents and photos.


Richard T Eger 09-06-2004 12:55 PM

From 12 O'Clock High!:

Marcus Wendel
[email protected]
Sat Aug 28, 2004 10:40

I'm compiling information on museums with Axis WW2 equipment on my site, the Axis History Factbook at , and I'd appreciate any help with additions (text or photos) or corrections to the material.

The museums section can be found at


[email protected]

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