Black Cross/Red Star: Air War Over the Eastern Front , by Bergström & Mikhailov - 6

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Jens
Re: Luftwaffe Losses on the Ostfront
Thu Dec 2, 2024 15:22
82.82.248.100


1942:

Also note, that Christer Bergström notes, that undoubtly Luftwaffe losses in 1942 were some higher.

Additionaly these 5199 soviet losses are german fighter claimes, in the whole Luftwaffe (AAA and others) claimed over 6900 soviet airplanes.
In 1942 VVS/PVO lost 7800 planes in combat(12100 total). If you take right german claimes in first half of 1942, the soviet had only lost 1000 planes in second half of 1942. This is nearly impossible slow, remembering that great german offensive and Stalingrad/Caucasus battle was in the second half.

Conclusion: Strong german Overclaim with a questionable degree of overclaiming.
4400 Fighters were lost in combat by Red Army in 1942, 7000 fighter losses in the whole.

1941:
Red Army lost 10600planes (5100 fighters) in combat and 21000 airplanes totally.

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

mars
Re: Luftwaffe Losses on the Ostfront
Thu Dec 2, 2024 16:28
12.106.254.66


Jens, this was just Soviet and Germans aircrafts losses in the first half of 1942, not the whole year, and these 5199 soviet losses were not just those shot down by German fighter, those shot down by ground fire and destroyed on ground also were included

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

Jens
Re: Luftwaffe Losses on the Ostfront
Thu Dec 2, 2024 18:49
82.82.248.100


? I am afraid, but i can't get to a consense with your last post. I 've Bergströms Vol. 2 page 210 just next besides me:

5199 in air combat (fighters mostly)
922 by AAA
855 on the ground
=6976 total.

Bergström itself states that german overclaim rate is less than 1:2. That means not so high overclaim, but overclaim.
So whether the 5199 nor the 6976 are real soviet losses.

I also said, if you compare with indeed soviet losses in whole 1942, than 80% of that had to be in first half of 1942 and thats quite impossible.

Note:
Soviet claimes the destruction of round 5200 german planes in 1942 first half. page 210 bergström vol.2

[Richard T Eger]

From TOCH!:

mars
you are right, look at the wrong column (nm)
Fri Dec 3, 2024 01:49
65.231.140.66